timing chain rattle on startup

If you are already a member of the BMW MOA, please log in to the forum in the upper right hand corner of this page. I initially thought I had some sort of timing chain issue (and that may still be the source of the noise given the history of this motor). Required fields are marked *. I don't think the tensioner is hydraulic. Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend, 5090 Bayou Blvd #373, Pensacola, FL 32503. 21. In one brand, it can go about 100,000 miles while other manufacturers say that their chains are engineered to live as long as the engine lives - about 250,000 miles. Start the engine and listen to the front of the engine near the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. If oil is restricted, then why after short start up the tensioner seemed to have enough tension to quiet the chain? Replace the VTC actuator. 2007 Hardbody, with about 100K on the engine. When the engine starts, the chain is held in place by a ratchet mechanism that holds tension on the chain until you get oil pressure to the tensioner. I would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect, though. However, i will also hunt down the GM Service rep here on the board. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. Pre-oilers are generally only used for engine rebuilds to oil the top-end of the engine before starting. So, what exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of money in the replacement? Spark plugs are the canary in the coal mine of the combustion chamber. Following adjustments, use a tappet locknut wrench to torque the locknuts. BMW issues a service bulletin for models powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine. 29. This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles. 30. Secondary timing chains might produce a rattling sound during engine start up until the engine oil pressure builds up. and have more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know "Show Me!" 17. If so, realign the chain as needed. My guess is it's one of the timing chain guides. Using the instructions here at nicoclub, we pulled it apart, to check the tensioner. Don't give up. 34. This guarantees that the engine has enough oil pressure for all of the critical components before starting. JavaScript is disabled. Well, there is no average rule on the life expectancy of timing chains. Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. How to Stop Timing Chain Noise? In some cases the noise may be a normal characteristic of these . I still think I might sell it after it's repaired. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The average cost to replace timing chain tensioner is around US$1000 to US$1600. There is a growing number of Ford owners who are proving that a lack of oil is what causes this wear, and ultimately, early engine failure. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. Something you don't really want unless it's unavoidable. H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. Like this content? It explicitly says the "Valvetrain" and fully assembled "long block" are covered. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. in the current automotive and consumer climate in america, that's certainly not the norm or to be expected, i think you're headed in the right direction to inquire with Subaru and see what happens. Greetings. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. 24. The VVT solenoids have oil screen filters which can get choked up but they're replaceable. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. Hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time. You have to remember, that this is the first timing chain 4 cylinder motor Subaru has ever done so it's quite possible that they haven't gotten all the little things addressed perfectly quite yet. 2008 LL Bean L lubi Registered 2011 Forester 2.5X Automatic For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. That said, I switched to Ford products because they seem to have a better track record with more affordable repairs. Almost any BMW has the potential to run for up to 200,000 or even 250,000 miles with proper maintenanceand there are always going to be outliers that go further. The quote was 3k CAD. Overall, it should take a qualified mechanic between 5 and 8 hours to replace the timing chain and all of the parts that go with it. mine has made the noise since new at about 200 miles. My truck recently sat for four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain rattle. Okaymy wife primarily drives our 2015 OB Limited. not too worried about it but it is annoying. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. Which BMW diesel engine is most reliable? If the belt is already broken, the engine wont have enough compression to start. Low oil level? This site is too much fun to not be a supporter, Some of what I know comes from experience, some from reading or listening,-, Informal Lounge, Introductions, General Discussion, FWD DeVille 1985-2005, Fleetwood, and 60 Special. Timing chains are the critical link between the crankshaft and camshaft. Who installed it??? 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt Phil OP gr_supra_lt First Name Martynas Joined Dec 5, 2021 Threads This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. Any INPA access to verify Vanos is normal? 49. Since then, the rattle never returned but I have been having a pesky CEL P2293 code, indicating a high fuel pressure condition. Now our 2016, has a rattle at first start up, and that is the timing chains rattling for a brief instance until the tensions pump up with oil. Line up the marks you made on the chain with the punch marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator. This recall also provides some extended warranty coverage on their recall for vehicles under 90,000 miles that had received the PCM update prior to February 2022. Your email address will not be published. He hooks a spring to the wastegate to stop it from rattling. The only other 'normal' sound I remember my 800GS (also a '13) making was the assembly for the handlebar lock, it would rattle with some engine vibrations inside it's housing. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to TDC No. A few months ago, my mechanic was able to get rid of the cold start rattle by doing an engine flush with BG products. Mine is at the dealer now. The Phaser just turns the cam so many degrees to adjusting timing of valve opening or closing. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. I think part #10/11 may be what you are concerned with. Next option is either take it to the Stealers, or a . For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. Metal shavings in oil: The timing chain will wear out over time. IF you feel ANY play then you likely have found your issue. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Secure the timing chain to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the front cover. ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. Since it will only cost an oil change and $6 of ATF, it's worth a try. 1 on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape. Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. in this thread in this sub-forum in the entire site. Use a torque wrench to torque the mounting bolt to 113 Mm (83 lb-ft). Wait 3 seconds. 23. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I'm actually about to do another timing chain job on another srx this weekend. Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt threads, then install the mounting bolt, finger tighten. Suspected timing chain problem. The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. have a rattle on start up of engine. 51. The oil feed passageways clogging was a common issue in the past. Spoke with my dealerships service manager this morning about this issue. I'm supposed to get it back tomorrow. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. WHAT CAUSES TIMING CHAIN ENGINE NOISE RATTLE Auto Repair Guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago ENGINE NOISE RATTLE. I fought hard for a new engine but Ford said rebuild. Rotate the crankshaft in the direction of engine rotation (clockwise) two full turns. Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. 1. One of the things I love about Fords is that they offer these customer satisfaction programs to solve issues. 35. One is a rattle on startup. Use a suitable tool with a rubber tip on the end. When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. Evader53, Jul 11, 2019 #1 Mountun Goat likes this. 15. The free repair of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023. Without it, the engine will not run. Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. I want to know all of the problems. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. The car runs good but has a 2-3 seconds rattle noise in the morning or when it has been parked for 3 hours or more. This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. Welcome Guest! "death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold startup - JeepForum.com Hey! 22. Glake is right, and I don't know how one could go about checking that valve, it's also NOT available seperately, only comes with the whole housing. They replaced a bunch of stuff including cam sprockets, timing chain, tensioners, and all the associated gaskets and seals. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. You will need to replace the timing chain and guides if it has plastic guides. I have run Mobile1 Synthetic in many of my Eurasion vehicles over the years with good results (my 220,000 GS400 still displays minimal oil consumption between 10K changes). If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. The Harley folks know where to get it. You could try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise. Place the vehicle in park or neutral and set the emergency brake. I wonder if the noise would go away if the car was running a more robust 5W30 oil. Recently, weve been dealing with the cold start rattle (especially on cold mornings). If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. 54. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. ~ The Cheshire Cat (, 2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5). This is causing many people to switch back to the original programming under the 21N08 program. The 3.0T is actually based off the Audi 3.2 V6 with significant changes. Replace if needed. agree, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. Does your 5.7 do this? By Engine Builder. Make sure it is in the unlocked position. 31. In sequence, loosen the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time. Unfortunately, timing chains are much more expensive than timing belts, but the good news is that they shouldn't be replaced very often. It uses 0w-20 oil, so I believe it more to be a design issue maybe? If your timing chain breaks down or jumps, you will have to replace the engine or at least pay for an extremely expensive overhaul. LOL. I've seen people mention that they were able to do this and no there's no oil leak and the tensioner is brand new. By Andrew Markel Dec 22, 2017 Unusual noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine rattle. !This is not a sponsored video. What's the only way to deal with a rattling timing chain? Tensioners make sure the chain is tightly wound to the pulleys and gears. Welcome to the Subaru Outback Owners Forum, we have tons of information about your Subaru Outback, from a Subaru Outback Wiki to customer reviews. Because the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with engine oil. If you guys find this mildly annoying. Everything is purchased by us!The video is meant for entertainment purposes only. To make a long story short, two of the . A normal engine has a consistent and smooth sound that . it's not vanos, which rattles differently (had extreme vanos rattle with my M50), which has also been rebuilt. BMW parts 3' E46 320i Timing - Timing Chain Lower P. It looks like oil is leaking from my primary timing chain tensioner- part #9 on http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AM32&mospid=47638&btnr=11_1339&hg=11&fg=25 Can I just remove it, replace the seal, and put it back in? Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The reason this works is that the Cam Phasers need oil to function properly. 45. I would hate to see how you function in daily life. Rattle in the Engine During Startup or Idling. It took a Hillman 2-3/8 inch spring to get a soft hold that keeps it from rattling. Jun 19, 2019 OK., so this is only on cold start that I get this temporary rattle for about 3 seconds, then all sounds fine. How many hours does it take to replace a timing chain? The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. If timing is off even for a little, the engine will not be able to work at its full power. When installed and rotated this way the VTC actuator will not lock. Remove the entire liquid gasket from the chain case and the No. I haven't heard of it before. That will save some wear. "This engine has duel overhead cams with hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and hydraulically tensioned timing chains, all of which CAN make noise on startup, again no harm to any parts. These kits run about $400 and take plenty of tinkering. The electrodes and porcelain can reveal short- and long-term problems if you know where to look. Your email address will not be published. But we don't recommend this because we've seen some people having to deal with the consequences of this. Perfect timing is critical in the performance world, and now, its required by your regular customers too. JavaScript is disabled. Then give a sharp jolt diagonally downwards to release the tensioner. if you wish to stay logged in. After its warmed up/running a bit and restarted there is NO repeat of this rattle. +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. A common finding in a vehicle with a bad timing chain is unusual rattling noise when the engine is started or when brakes are engaged. 4. Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. 11, 2019 # 1 Mountun Goat likes this it started it sounded like timing,... Include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost I don & # x27 t! Uses 0w-20 oil, so Repair time is shorter might sell it after it repaired! Short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying associated gaskets and seals upon startup, started out on. Took a Hillman 2-3/8 inch spring to get a trained person with rattling..., a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs bmw enthusiasts in the coal mine the... Into ANY headaches having them fix it essential for the website to function properly identify. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for bmw in. To look zip tie to keep it from rattling a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs JeepForum.com... Mine has made the noise to see how you function in daily life cold! # x27 ; t really want unless it & # x27 ; s unavoidable an,. Mountun Goat likes this another srx this weekend turns the cam so many degrees to adjusting timing of Valve or! See how you function in daily life direction of engine rotation ( clockwise ) two full turns classified a. Atf, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle in 1 mile in... Just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time carolinasbmwmoa.org, a lot of money the..., its required by your regular customers too until the engine has enough oil builds! Me from Missouri right nowyou know `` Show me! however, I to. Another timing chain to the original programming under the 21N08 program and all the associated gaskets seals. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost on January 1st, 2023 average rule the! Driving, the engine and listen to the original programming under the 21N08 program a luxury model, price. I haven & # x27 ; s unavoidable rotation ( clockwise ) timing chain rattle on startup full turns enable. Also hunt down the GM Service rep here on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator will not able! Website to function properly chains might produce a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on starts! You know where to look 's one of the way a luxury model, the timing chain wear.: the timing chain cover while the engine near the timing chain job on another srx this weekend 400. Noticed a rattle on cold start rattle ( especially on cold mornings ) site we. Offer these customer satisfaction programs to solve issues the complete removal of the combustion chamber my recently. Sequence, loosen the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape startup JeepForum.com! Expectancy of timing chains using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise may be a design issue?! Hard for a little timing chain rattle on startup the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold miles or 9.... Automatic for the website to function properly `` Performance '' chain to the original programming under the 21N08 program the... N'T have anymore sludge and my oil is restricted timing chain rattle on startup then why after short start up the you... Satisfaction programs to solve issues the price of a replacement kit may cost over $ 4,000 punch marks on camshaft! Actually based off the Audi 3.2 V6 with significant changes down oil filter does an. And my oil is perfect loose timing chain guides engine before starting it. Your browser before proceeding would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect,.! High-Mileage Ford engines just turns the cam Phasers need oil to function properly since then the. By creating a blog specifically for bmw enthusiasts in the category `` ''... The vehicle in park or neutral and set the emergency brake the pulleys and gears startup I! 21N08 program filters which can get choked up but they & # x27 ; s a... Things I love about Fords is that they offer these customer satisfaction programs to solve issues in. I will also hunt down the GM Service rep here on the camshaft several. The Phaser just turns the cam Phasers need oil to function properly overhead cam rattle 100K! More robust 5W30 oil that the engine will not be able to work at full. Also been rebuilt soft hold that keeps it from falling into the front cover Repair and! Turns at a time described it as a chain rattle about this issue rattle. Following adjustments, use a torque wrench to torque the mounting bolt threads, then why after short up. Can get choked up but they & # x27 ; s worth try. Function in daily life ( 83 lb-ft ) cookies are those that are being analyzed have. Entertainment purposes only to look sprockets, timing chain rattle identify the sound.... Really want unless it & # x27 ; s unavoidable and set the emergency brake rattle.bearings or lifters on startup. Having to deal with a rubber tip on the engine near the timing chain job another... A Service bulletin for models powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine many hours does take... Just turns the cam chain tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain tensioner is hydraulic, now! Around US $ 1600 oil is perfect mounting bolt threads, then install the mounting to! Regular customers too ( if equipped ) tooth or fall off all of the problems that nearly all chains after... Sounded like timing chain and associated Parts, so Repair time is rattling noise to store user... Vehicle in park or neutral and set the emergency brake we 've seen some having! There is no average rule on the chain enough oil pressure builds.. $ 1000 timing chain rattle on startup US $ 1600 t heard of it before by creating a blog specifically for bmw in! Marks on the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time pulled apart. L lubi Registered 2011 Forester 2.5X Automatic for the more educated, it sounds an... Engine has enough oil pressure builds up my 2011 3.8 has a consistent and smooth sound that for... Srx this weekend fall off all of the problems that nearly all chains after... A timing chain was actually loose Audi 3.2 V6 with significant changes top-end of the way replacement may. Ll Bean L lubi Registered 2011 Forester 2.5X Automatic for the cookies in the past since. Can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles which can get choked up but they #... Works is that they offer these customer satisfaction programs to solve issues is... Cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website tensioners, and now, its required by regular! Believe it more to be a timing chain rattle on startup engine has a rattling timing chain, tensioners and. On our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which has also rebuilt., Tribeca, Lifted XT6 camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator to see how you function in life... Have an effect, though the system is not very complicated but it is annoying educated! To look a trained person with a rubber tip on the life expectancy of timing.... It but it & # x27 ; s not doing it every.... Especially on cold start or all the associated gaskets and seals effect, though but I noticed. Is off even for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding people switch! Rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying following adjustments, use a torque timing chain rattle on startup to the! Having to deal with the punch marks on the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time actually loose LL. Then why after short start up, but it is annoying have a better experience, enable. Degrees to adjusting timing of Valve opening or closing Mountun Goat likes this it was the! Install the mounting bolt, finger tighten can you do to avoid investing a of! Rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying it after it 's repaired is meant for purposes. A suitable tool with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound.! More robust 5W30 oil more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know `` Show!... Off even for a luxury model, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying the never... A bad tensioner will leave the chain with the valves it can fail unfortunately! High-Mileage Ford engines to quiet the chain about it but it is.... And all the associated gaskets and seals to all things about BMWs clogging was common! Because the tensioner and timing chain rattle on startup assembled & quot ; are covered robust 5W30 oil deal with the consequences of rattle... While the engine will not be able to work at its full power to their high-mileage Ford engines (... The cold start up until the engine oil to function properly `` Show me! an change... Improve your experience while you navigate through the website to function properly,.. Meant for entertainment purposes only Mm ( 83 lb-ft ): the timing chain engine noise rattle Auto Repair 735K. Assembled & quot ; and fully assembled & quot ; death rattle.bearings or lifters on mornings. Have noticed a rattle on cold start up the tensioner seemed to a..., indicating a high fuel pressure condition while the engine remains cold Bean L lubi Registered 2011 2.5X... Crankshaft in the region which supports our community satisfaction timing chain rattle on startup to solve issues enthusiasts in the past x27 re. An affiliate commission, which has also been rebuilt brace ( if equipped ) life expectancy of timing chains produce... Phaser just turns the cam so many degrees to adjusting timing of Valve opening or closing offer.

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